iamcal.com Since May 2000

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• Hello!

Presumably you've all heard about the governments proposition to make smokers and obese people to pay for their own nhs treatment? What do you all think of that?

I'm appalled at this idea (I neither smoke - only just given up though - nor am I obese, btw) but these people have been paying their tax just like everyone else. Why should they be cut out? Talk about discrimination. How about the cost on the system for attempted suicides, anorexics, drug users, etc?

I think it's a good idea, but it needs more thought.

Anyone who smokes knowing all the health problems it causes is just plain stupid. And anyone who eats too much knowing the problems that leads to is also plain stupid. Let's face it, both of these problems can be avoided - there's simply no excuse for either of them.

If you smoke and get cancer - even though there are warnings plastered all over the packet - that's your own fault. If you eat too much and become obese - that again is your own fault. What annoys me is that these idiots who choose to ignore the warnings then have the cheek to expect treatment for something they could have easily avoided, but because they've contributed to the NHS via tax etc. they're entitled to it. The same applies to all the other morons who cause themselves health problems simply by being ignorant.

I was going to suggest that getting rid of the NHS and replacing it with a U.S. style system would make people think twice about smoking and eating too much (care in the U.S. is quite expensive), but considering the amount of smokers and obese people in the U.S., it would be a futile argument.

Of course, you could turn the argument around and say that someone has a cheek getting treatment for a filling, simply because they chose to ignore the warnings and consumed lots of sweets and sugary drinks. :)

it's ridiculous. you are who you are and people should be able to live however they want, just a way for labour to get a bit of extra cash in their pockets i think

ditto everyone except Gary

does tax on fags go directly to the NHS. cos if it does then it should be at a level so that the sales of fags and the taxes that produces is enough to cover the costs of helping people with illnesses caused by smoking. that would be fine then.

I dont know the ins and outs but apparently my tax on fags covers the problems I cause on myself and then some, but not the problems I cause on the rest of the world... apparently. Im taking this info from something I saw on the telly spouted by a big anti-smoking person.

However I still think this new scheme is fucking shite!

Mr George Best. You have killed your liver through drink. Please pay us £X for a new one. NEXT!
Mr Hill. You chose life driving fast cars. Im afraid that the brain surgery bill alone is going to cost you £X. Would you like to be able to sign your name again? NEXT!

Where do you draw the line?

Its too hard to determin between passive smoking and normal smoking, so people who passive smoke will be discriminated against when it is obviously not their fault

Also obese people, its sometimes not their fault, mental and physical problems usually do this. very few people are obese because they wanted to eat too much, so this is a very very bad idea

I think it's an awfull idea - it's not easy to give up smoking, it took me a long time to finally be able to do it and I didn't smoke that much! obeseity is not only caused by eating a lot aswell, the people on here that know me know that I am certainly not a small lad - but it's not down to the amount I eat, as I have always been this way since I was a young child. I've tried a lot to change it, done almost every diet under the sun, and none of them seem to work.

I think that the idea of putting extra tax on fatty food's is a better idea to discourage people from eating junk - but will an extra 5p on a chocolate bar really stop people from buying them?

Ho hum.

Should people pay for surgery for treatment for DVT coz they chose to go on a long haul flight?

Should people that work in stressful jobs pay for their heart attack treatment.

Should fireman pay for burns treatment.

Should ballerinas pay for treatment to collapsed arches and broken bones in their foot.

Answer, no !

The amount of tax that we pay on everything we do should more than pay for everything on the health service.

ballerinas should pay tutu-tax

But the government spend our tax on crap that we don't need and costs too much, like the mellenium dome and wars which we don't need to join and then complain when there is not enought money for the freggin schools and health service

that's the lamest thing you've ever said chay

congrats :D

Fucking hell, that was awful!


"tutu-tax"????


*THUD*

But the dome was important due to its role in spicing up the title sequence to Eastenders.

and to have james bond slip down it

this is true

Gary, do you drink? People have vices, it's a fact of life. No, overeating and smoking aren't sensible things to do but some people aren't as head strong as others. Some people smoke/overeat maybe for comfort, maybe it's the only pleasure they have in life. People that have underlying problems, for example do silly things. At the end of the day people make mistakes, what annoys me is the government wants to penalise them because of it. It's blatant discrimination. Maybe instead the government should pay for everyone to have counselling to find out what's causing the self destruction. (okay, maybe not...).

I like jlittle's idea of putting up the price on fatty foods (and yes, tax from cigs does go to the government) :) (mind you I'm already put out at the price increases in MacDonalds...)

My aunty has a weight problem, not cos she over eats and not from the lack of trying, she was in a car accident and something happened and she now has absolutly no metablism it seems, she has been on diets and what have you but nothing helps

Nope.



I don't call choosing to smoke a "mistake". I call it plain stupidity. Same goes for overeating, too. Of course, there are those who can't help it (like BG's aunt for example), but those who can help it have no excuse. Ignorance is bliss, I guess. :)

So smoking/drink/overeating is based on stupidity. What about the psychological reasons? Stress? Nerves? Bereavement? Lack of willpower?

Is your opinion based on some Mariah Carey lyrics perchance? :P

You are talking shit Gary.

Can't you read? Here:

But you're doing the whole "high horse" thing, and saying people have no excuses and are to be punished for their weaknesses in essence. This is crap.

I like my high horse. :P

Those who can't help it through whatever reason are entitled to treatment. It's those people who decide it would be great to start smoking or eating excessively that I have a problem with. As for the psychological reasons - stress is a made up illness that lazy people use to avoid work - and I have no time for anyone who comes out with that excuse. I've been nervous (before exams, etc.) and I have been bereaved, but I've never turned to drink or smoking to help!

I have a driving lesson in an hours time, and I'm quite nervous about that, shall I go and have a smoke or a quick drink? Er... no.

"Mmm, yeah! I think I'm going to start eating excessively for no reason. Why? Just for the crack of it!"

People don't say this.

"stress is a made up illness that lazy people use to avoid work"

Bullshit. You are Hitler and I claim my £5.....

You'd be surprised at the amount of people I know that have decided to start smoking because their friends do as well.

So what? It gives no grounds to criticise them. Just because you don't smoke/drink/whatever, it doesn't make you a better person.

also how can you determin whether that person can help it or not, what are you using to pivot whether it is right or wrong?

i'm better than people who smoke

*cowers in a corner waiting for a beating*

RIGHT THEN!!!


*rolls up sleeves*

*flushes Chay's head down toilet*

*kicks Chay in the knackers as punishment for his insolence*

i may have a wet head and broken balls but i'm still better than people who smoke

*braces self for a further pummeling*

TWAT!

;)

yaay, puppy baiting

Don't push me, Milhouse!

*shakes fist*

Hee hee " Millhouse" HAHAHAH

:D

:D

that doesn't get any funnier rosie. don't encourage the puppy

We think its funny.

Funny cos it's true.

ok gay-boy
shouldnt you be taunting one-can?

(JOKE!!!!!)

(funny cos its true)

Fuck you!!!


No, please, can I???? I'll be gentle. I'll even provide a bucket of poppers if you like. ;)

ok, but be quick

hehe :D

that was quick

Well, when you don't let me trombone you, I won't give the whole 5 minutes.

Yes it does.



Yes it does - and healthier, too.



My opinion.

Well, i might be a bit late for this party but here goes.

Gary: a bit of advice for you, your elbow is the bit halfway down your arm.

Vicky: a note for you, your balls are in the second drawer down, hidden under the stapler.

Cheers chay, i'd get them back but they've gone all purple.

now ive been informed that the taxes from fags pay for that strain on the NHS im quite happy to say that this contract for smokers/obese people is a bloody awful idea.

i look forward to the nanobots that will live inside us and fix the broken bits.

maybe they will be able to repair the damage done to your wedding tackle from years of desk based abuse vicky.

Hehe... thank you for pointing that out, Victor. :P

Smokers cough up (boom boom) enough taxes each year to fund 85% of the NHS.

If the money raised in tax-revenue were to be solely used to fund healthcare for smokers, we would be the best looked after people in the history of the world.

yeah but those taxes dont fund 85% of the NHS.
cos it doesnt all go to the NHS.
hey you could also help the country by using the tar from your lungs to repair britains roads

I think the government should be banned

i agree with gary.. and those damn anorexics, we should make them give all the money they save on food each year to the nhs to pay for their treatment, i mean they chose to not eat right?? stupid skinny cunts...

/removing tongue from cheek now

Being a healthy sized non smoker, I think it is a wonderful Idea.

If I become obese and start smoking, then I may change my position...

dammit, everyone should be normal and the same and problem free right? then we wouldnt be wasting our taxes on those damn ill people...

and we should all wear grey suits and eat bland meat and boiled cabbage, and work in an office block and and, aggghhhhhh
:)

ah utopia here we come...

braaaaziiiiil dadadeedaadaadadadaaaaaa

my brother just got the special edition dvd.. must go watch that at some point...

Oh, please. Now this whole thing is being taken out of context. The Government plan is aimed at smokers and obese people. It's easy to turn the argument around and pick on other people with health problems (avoidable or not), but for now, lets just stay on topic, eh?

It is the topic, why just smokers and obese people? i once broke my wrist on the piss in bath, i went down to casualty and sat for half an hour watching scumbag junkies getting wheeled in after their latest overdose. They get treatment but smokers don't?

Quote:



As for the junkies, they shouldn't get treatment either. You on the other hand, had an accident. It might be your own fault for being drunk at the time, but it was an accident, right? You don't start smoking by "accident" and you certainly don't get obese or out of your face on drugs by "accident", either.

Oops, didn't see that bit...

Right, bollocks to this. I'm off to watch one of the best shows on the TV at the moment: Dragnet! :)

I think you might have misunderstood me there, i'm not worried about my wrist, or the treatment, or indeed the wait, i'm talking about singling out specific characteristics to ban people from the healthcare they are entitled to.

Leaving aside the fact that it is a ridiculous idea and we are more likely to make Paris the capital of England than we are to put it into law, Do you really think that ideas like this will 'save the NHS'?

So what happens when someone gives birth to a child with a genetic disorder? Tell them they won't be offered any treatment because they should have known better about giving birth with their genes?

everyone's entitled to healthcare, life isnt as black and white as gary seems to think. You cant turn your back on people that have serious problems, people dont just stop what they're doing one day suddenly and think 'oh i know i'm going to go and get high now, i wonder where my nearest heroin dealer is, wont this be jolly good fun!!'

The government shouldnt be whacking tax on stuff to cover the cost of the problems that stuff causes, they should be dealing with the root causes, like educating people about their diets, funding campaigns to quit smoking (i know they already do), make more public places non-smoking so its a hassle to do it, things like that...

(did that make any sense?)

So its ok for an obese child not to be given treatment because his/her parents will not adhear to a contract laid down by the GP about their child's health?

Why not just set up a fat camp and stick all the fatties there, eh? Better still why not do a Ren and Stimpy and suck all the fat out of the fatties and feed it in milkshakes to the thinnies. WE WILL GET OUR MASTER RACE! ONE WAY OR ANOTHER!

twat

guys, guys, i forgot...



remember, dont provoke gary...

i also think number two on the list is a bit of a lie, everyone seems to have met a couple of people here now (some have even met in the biblical sense).. i think you should rephrase that cal..

So smokers and fat people are the bane of the NHS. Ok. Why not add old people to the list too? Their brittle bones are a pain in the arse.

Doc: "Mrs Batty. We will treat your hip today but if you could just sign this"
Mrs Batty: "Whats this deary?"
Doc: "I wouldnt worry. It just says that the NHS have decided that you have used up your NHS treatment quota so if you're not dead in the next six months and you require our services then you will need to pay a fine. Thats all"
Mrs Batty: "Oh..."

People were drunk when they came up with this idea - FACT!

sul, dont forget people with skin cancer.. i mean if they will go out in the sunshine without factor 50 on its their fault right? they knew the risks?

gary's lost this arguement horribly - FACT

Exactly Jess, If you will go outside... :/

"some have even met in the biblical sense"

lolol :D

Wow! I go away to watch an episode of Dragnet, and I come back to this lot. Great. I'll start from the top then shall I?



Ban? Woah! Hold up there one moment. If we start talking about banning certain people, it opens up a whole new can of worms regarding human rights etc. Not even I could be that cruel (seriously). Make them pay more certainly, but banning them is a step too far.



If not this idea, then something else - but something needs to be done.



Anyone who has a genetic disorder, and then gives birth to a child knowing that the child could also end up with that same genetic disorder (or something much worse) needs their head examining.



Of course not. But if that "serious problem" happens to a person who has smoked 40 a day for most of his life, and has chosen to ignore the warnings, why shouldn't they pay extra for their treatment?



Now THAT I do agree with. I do, however, think they should tax fags much, much higher.



Of course it is. In a business environment, if you sign a contract and break it, the ramifications are potentially huge. Any parent that deliberately lets their child get dangerously obese needs to have their child taken off them.



I was expecting someone to start the name calling sooner or later. If you can't talk without resorting to baby name calling Sul, don't bother.





Again, we seem to be taking this way, way out of context.



Maybe so. But winning isn't everything - it's the taking part that counts, right? Besides, I've quite enjoyed this little discussion. It's just a shame certain people (read: Sul) have to spoil it by name calling. Night, night.

I'm sorry Gary but I do think that anyone who agrees with this insanity is in fact a 'twat'. So take comfort in the fact that the offence was not aimed at you but rather at a much bigger high horse riding, Nazi flag flying, target.

Shouldve said 'twats' (plural) really. I apologise.

I'm not much into politics, but over here in the U.S we have some pretty obeese people, and i know ppl that smoke, AT MY AGE!!(I'm 14)So I would do anything to get rid of the hazards of life, like smoking, but some ppl can't help but be over weight, and so they shouldn't have to pay for that , but smokers can go to hell, my aunt died from second hand smoke, so I'm against it. (I can see that if you're trying to quit or something, but lord if you have to keep somking for no good reason, it's terrible for you!!!) alright, that's my two cents.

someone said that they should tax fags???

that's terrible!!! Just because they're gay, doesn't mean you have to tax them. Talk about discrimination!!! You people are terrible!!! What if they can't help it??? So what if they're different!!!That's really sad... really really really sad~!

I do love that you ppl say "arse" instead of ass.

You rock, coolcat!

coolcat - "fags" in the uk mans cigarettes.

mind you, gay people should be taxed just the same as the straight - equal rights and all that ;)

coolcat88: LOL, I hope you are joking ;)

WTF!? Gary - this is eugenics. This is fucking insanity. I don't think i'll ever be able to take you seriously again.





Do you not think these things through? What about poor people who can't afford their treatment. This is effectivly a bad on healthcare for the people who need it most (the poor, sick). Let's just do away with the welfare state. Who needs social security? Presumably people should just fend for themselves. You fucking disgust me.

What about Mariah Carey then, Gary?? ;)

the NHS was set up and is there for anyone who needs medical treatment no matter who they are. Thats the whole point in it

and coolcat in England ass means donkey thats why we use the word arse for bum

The word "prat" springs to mind. I'm beond belief that someone can actually think like that.

My girlfriend has nonnans syndrome, with is genetic, however it has not affected our baby - just because people have a genetic disorder, does that mean that they should not live? Fuck it, let's just kill all the disabled aswell right?

Idiot. Maybe you should also respect the fact that your comments could hurt other people that read this site.

OHHHH!
wow, that makes sence, where do you get calling cigarettes fags??? That scared me a bit. And we use ass to mean donkeys too, like when your mom walkes in to your room and your on the phone and you call someone a totaly"big ass ass face" then you can say you ment donkey......

thatnk you "arsepuppy" I do rock.... I I do say so myself.

(internal thought) are you calling your self an ass dog???

coolcat: where do you lot get calling gay people "fags" ???

coolcat88: www.iamcal.com/about.php?page=3

There is the answer to your question

I'd assume it was from faggot, chay

faggot n. Offensive Slang

Used as a disparaging term for a homosexual man.

[Perhaps from faggot, variant of fagot, bundle, lump, old woman.]

There's a 'boning up' joke around here somewhere

thanks Sul.

yeah i worked out it was from Faggot, but then why faggot as a term for gay people?

And we get 'fag' from 'fag end'(the frayed end of a peice of rope) according to dictionary.com

So there you go.

Chay: The only thing I can see is possibly from fagot - old woman.

i guess, I'm not a realy expert in my own language......

oops, forget the "y" on real

Its alright mate. Its not really your language. It's ours. ;)

American English is alot different.....

like why do you ppl call fries chips?? What do you call like Lays potato chips then???

crisps

Gary you are so not right in the head, I pity you

okay.... that's cool...

Sul: Apology accepted.



No it's not. It's cruelty. If you had a genetic disorder, and KNEW that if you had a child it would end up with the same genetic disorder when it was born, would you still go ahead with it? I certainly wouldn't.



Again, everything I've said is being blown way, way out of context. Exceptions could be made in certain cases. I said it above - not even I'm that cruel.



Don't go there AP, don't go there.



The words "can't people read properly here" also spring to mind. I'll repeat my above line on this - if you had a genetic disorder, and KNEW that if you had a child it would end up with the same genetic disorder when it was born, would you still go ahead with it? I certainly wouldn't. I'm pleased for you that your child is fine and dandy.



If you (or anyone else) find my opinion offensive, then I can only suggest you just ignore it. I make no apologies. I say what I see and feel about something - my truthful, honest opinion - why should I lie or tone it down just in case someone doesn't like it? I get myself into a lot of trouble sometimes with this attitude, but I won't change. Never.



Because my opinion differs from everyone else here? Oh please.

Don't worry about them gary, i get the joke. nobody can be that idiotic, you're obviously on the wind up. good work mate, really got them going.

Victor: But I'm NOT joking...

However, winding people up is a specialist skill of mine. Knowing the right buttons to press and when to press them etc. Though I must admit it has taken me several years to get it just right (so that in the event it all turns nasty, I have enough time to run away). :)

Ah, in that case, we're done talking.

As an aside, I've lost count of the threads that have spiralled out of control due to me firing off my thoughts. Inevitably, it all ends with it being me vs. the iamcal gang. Nothing wrong with that, of course - touchy subjects such as war, fox hunting and a whole lot of other things are bound to get heated. But I do wish for once - just once - someone would have the balls to break out of that crowd and not toe the popular opinion line.

My thoughts exactly.

sorry garry but I am in that gang cos i think it is wrong for the fact the nhs was made for anyone and everyone plus I am overweight cos I lived so far away from my g/f and comfort ate for 2 years

You said "could" not would - that makes the matter completely different.

Ah, my bad. :)

BG: I respect your opinion. I just wish everyone else would show me the same respect - even if they don't agree with my opinion. :)

"and not toe the popular opinion line."

that doesnt mean that in every arguement the person who breaks "out of that crowd" is right. in fact most arguments like that have a big group on one side because all those people BELIEVE that side of the argument. not because they "gang up" on gary.

It feels like that sometimes, Chay. But frankly, I really couldn't care less who agrees with me or who doesn't agree with me.

Way to be an individual Gary.

Er, thanks! :)

er.. ur welcome... I've been wathing you ppl debate... it's better than court TV

just a joke....

Hahaha! :)

you know I"m laughin....

Hehe. Ok, enough of this. It's almost 2am here, I'm off to bed. Night, night.

g'night

my apologies for bringing up an old thread, but there are two points I would like to make.
First of all alcohol related crimes and injuries, cost the government 8 billion a year, almost the same revenue they get from ciggies.
Second, every woman with an ounce of brains, know that cervical cancer is caused by having unprotected sex, in some cases the human papillomavirus is contracted and the result is cervical cancer.
Now, should we refuse women treatment because they know the risks before they shag ? Should we also refuse drunks who either fall, or fight every weekend.
Being an ex nurse I have seen people refused treatment and it is not the smokers, the drinkers the drug addicts or the obese.

Yeah! Give the drunks a break!

Give them a drink, it's not closing time yet.

Ok can I just say, I am totally dumbfounded by what Gary said on this thread. I think people who get ill from smoking are going through enough to learn their lesson, without being told they have to pay for treatment, that's just fascist. Isn't it interesting that nothing ever came of it though?
On another note, everyone here wasn't taking the popular opinion, they are just caring, compassionate people that believe that everyone deserves a second chance, and shouldn't face death for a mistake they make.

Dont mind Gary. He's our token BNP member with no taste in music :)

I know, it's just got me all pissed off now...
People suck sometimes.

Unfortuanately not when I want them to... thh

Perci, you surely are a truly gifted kid,

Naa, it was just painfully obvious, so I thought I would write instead of waiting for the inevitable to happen. ;)

I agree with Chay's "fag tax should go straight to the NHS" idea.

ap automatically looses.

At the end of the day, whether you agree with disagree with Gary, you can't deny his idea that "If you smoke and get cancer - even though there are warnings plastered all over the packet - that's your own fault."

My 2c. That is all. We now resume normal programming.

Zzz...

Sul: Fuck off. :)

My fuck's very rarely on, Gaz. :/