Discussion » To Rip Or Not To Rip

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Posted by Gary, 14:28, 7th July 2003:
 
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3049966.stm

In an attempt to foster some good discussion, have a read of the article above, and then answer the question. Personally, I believe it's morally and legally wrong. I do wish prices were lower, though!

Oops, forgot the question mark... :|
Posted by beargod, 14:53, 7th July 2003:
 
It to me has replaced the shareware sector of the software industry. If I download something, and I use it I will buy it if I don't use it then I delete it. I would never copy a piece of software illegally, even if I downloaded it, to give to anyone.

But now I usually just find the equivalant of the software in freeware. and games I always buy, but usually wait for it to go down in price
Posted by jlittle, 14:59, 7th July 2003:
 
I'm a thief, I rip software, I download software, and I can admit to it.

I don't feel guilt for it, so I guess I'm a fucker.

Sorry about that.
Posted by beargod, 15:00, 7th July 2003:
 
I download software, like dreamweaver etc but I never use it so I delete it, It wasts too much space, same goes with music though.
Posted by jlittle, 15:02, 7th July 2003:
 
Exactly. If you could buy a DVD or Office package for £5 would you bother going to the effort of finding a pirate copy? I'll stop using pirated software and DVDs when they have an honest price.


That's very true! I bought a few Pirated DVD's at the weekend as they were only £5 and it saved me from the hastle of downloading them!
Posted by gobbo, 15:04, 7th July 2003:
 
im with simon, i tend to buy my games, i have very few games that were copied (well, when compared to the amount i have!).

I tend to download software that is trial version or something, because i usually need it for something quick and specific and then delete it again, though some things i download like BBC radio comedy episodes, cos you cant buy them on CD because the beeb is out of date.
Posted by Gary, 15:26, 7th July 2003:
 
I have a 56k connection here at home, and the only thing I download is MP3's - anything else like games, software etc. is just too time consuming. That doesn't mean I'd download games and software if I had broadband, though - I much prefer the feeling of owning my games/software, and I do like to pay the authors for their work (even if it is a lot of money). For example, I've thoroughly enjoyed playing Civilisation 3, Championship Manager 4, and NHL 2003. I'm happy to pay for them because I know some of that money will go into producing even better games.

As for MP3, I have far, far more CDs than I do MP3's. Most of the music I like comes out on vinyl months before it does on CD, so I download the MP3 to see if it's any good - if I like it I buy the CD, if I don't I delete it. Simple.
Posted by Gary, 15:32, 7th July 2003:
 
Oops. On second thoughts, scratch Championship Manager 4 from that list - well, for the moment anyway. I've hardly played it because of all the bugs in it! Its had four patches so far, but it's still buggy - a fifth patch is on the way, which should hopefully make it playable.
Posted by arsepuppy, 15:50, 7th July 2003:
 
Gary- who is the lady in your profile pic? She seems to have rather large breasticles.
Posted by cal, 17:47, 7th July 2003:
 
she's a "wish you were here" presenter. ruth someone

i read gary's weblog to find out - thought it might be gary's bird or something
Posted by beargod, 08:20, 8th July 2003:
 
I think its the main presenter
Posted by jlittle, 09:58, 8th July 2003:
 
so is it illgal for me to watch Terminator 3 tonight? :\
Posted by arsepuppy, 09:59, 8th July 2003:
 
do it. Fuck 'em.
Posted by xxtezzaxx, 10:36, 8th July 2003:
 
well i like terminator sort of it can b gud but after watching it for a while u fall asleep and ill shut up now cause im making myself tired
Posted by zxenor, 16:53, 8th July 2003:
 
"The booty on your hard drive cost Americans 111,000 jobs in 2001, $5.6bn in lost wages and $1.5bn in unpaid tax. If that doesn't make you feel a twinge of guilt, you're obviously a hardened crook and should consider becoming a career criminal or an oil executive."

that's assuming that if everyone who was currently pirating software were to go out and buy it, the software industry were to make $5.6bn. But why would they do that? the whole point of piracy is to not pay the original price.

this guy says that piracy is the same as shoplifting, but it's not! when you shoplift, you shoplift a commodity, making one less in the store's inventory. software is 1s and 0s, it can replicate all it wants, and no one will "lose" anything. i believe that there should not be a copyright on 1s and 0s. soon they'll take the precious 2 and 3 as well, and before you know it, we can't count without the RIAA&MPAA fining us for $300,000

i'm not "for" software piracy. i believe that if someone has money to spare, they should buy whatever software they're using. however, a large portion of software piracy is done by teenagers! i believe this use to be helpful for education. young people get a chance to use any software they can think of, and get a headstart on whatever career they strive for.

(/rant)
Posted by Sul, 17:25, 8th July 2003:
 
That might be a fair point for things like photoshop, flash, dreamweaver etc. Software that any normal teenager can only hope to have the money to pay full price for. But then the point kinda dies of death when you talk about games or the £20/£30 stuff that they could their parents for christmas for.

I do agree that prices are too high for most things though.
Posted by chay, 17:48, 8th July 2003:
 
prices are too high nowadays, and i remember when this was all fields
Posted by November Eclectica, 18:12, 8th July 2003:
 
I don't have a home PC, so I really can't say anything as to me doing something like that. Not so say that I wouldn't, had I had a home PC.
Posted by zxenor, 21:47, 8th July 2003:
 
sul: forgot to mention that i am vehemently against computer games (not console games, mind you). it's more of a personal issue though. i don't see the point in wasting valuable computing on games when you can buy one of many specialised systems for that purpose alone.

my stance on music piracy:

i am a musician. i am also a composer. i am one of the many independent electronic artists on the net today. the music i make is my own, but i give it to whoever wants to hear it, simply because i believe in free access to information.

now, most of the music i listen to is electronica. most of that music i listen to is experimental/IDM, and if you know much about these genres, you will know that i have zero access to this on public radio, in most CD stores, and (in my area) in public performance. so, how do i hear it? the wonderful world wide web. sure, i can order CDs through amazon or some such (most are available, but not all popular electronica), but why would i want to buy the CDs if i haven't heard the songs many times, and want to enjoy them forever?

what's to stop me from burning the mp3s on a CD and not buying it? quality. if i truly enjoy something, i want to hear the best quality version of it possible. i ripped a friend's draft 7.30 CD at 320k/s mp3, and yet a few weeks later, i bought the album on vinyl, because i wanted the higher quality version.

(/rant 2)
Posted by jlittle, 14:31, 9th July 2003:
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/3052145.stm

Music fans who download songs from the internet go on to buy more albums, a survey has suggested.

Posted by arsepuppy, 14:38, 9th July 2003:
 
In theory that's true, but out of all the people I know who actively download, none of them ever buy music themselves. Surveys are inherently inaccurate anyway.
Posted by Victor Menendez, 14:38, 9th July 2003:
 
Chriskirkman.com/opinionatedRants/995433...

Pickpockets who steal money from people put the same money back into the econmony.
Posted by jlittle, 14:45, 9th July 2003:
 
In theory that's true, but out of all the people I know who actively download, none of them ever buy music themselves. Surveys are inherently inaccurate anyway.


I know lots of people that have downloaded tracks and then gone out and bought the album - I downloaded a few tracks from a band called Candlebox who are no longer about and ended up going to a record shop in Camden to buy all of their albums. If you could not download music, I would of never heard of lots of people that I listen to today...
Posted by arsepuppy, 14:47, 9th July 2003:
 
I'm only talking from experience though, innit.
Posted by chay, 14:48, 9th July 2003:
 
i bought Venus Hum's album cos i downloaded two track and loved them. mind you that was from the band's offical site. i think that was a good move on their part. :)
Posted by beargod, 14:49, 9th July 2003:
 
I have found a band called 'blessid union of soul' on a p2p and have always meant to buy their album, but I prefer to buy a CD in shops but can only find their cd in Amazon. I kind of think that sucks
Posted by arsepuppy, 14:53, 9th July 2003:
 
I prefer to use Amazon. Shops tend to charge too much. Except for Fopp, maybe.
Posted by beargod, 14:55, 9th July 2003:
 
yes I admit shops charge way too much, but you also get something solid strait away rather then an email promising it will be there
Posted by arsepuppy, 14:58, 9th July 2003:
 
Amazon are usually next day though. Unlike those sods at play.com
Posted by arsepuppy, 15:00, 9th July 2003:
 
I like amazon's thing where it recommends stuff to you that you'll like based on purchases and wishlist entries. You have to train it a bit initially to filter out the shite ("No I'm not interested in Starsailor or Lemon Jelly" etc.)
Posted by jlittle, 15:00, 9th July 2003:
 
erm @ beargod.

You get stranger by the day - is Amazon too main stream for you?!?
Posted by jlittle, 15:01, 9th July 2003:
 
play.com rocks AP - it may take a while to come though at times, but by far one of the cheapest stores for some things, i've probally got about 50 dvd's of there in total so far
Posted by chay, 15:02, 9th July 2003:
 
play have never taken longer than two days for me, they are great. and very very cheap
Posted by chay, 15:03, 9th July 2003:
 
ive ordered at 3pm in the afternoon and got my DVD the next morning on a couple of occasions. fantastic service
Posted by chay, 15:03, 9th July 2003:
 
maybe i live near the depot or something :)
Posted by beargod, 15:04, 9th July 2003:
 
I just ordered it, but no Its not too mainstream for me, I like good mainstream things, but whenever I have been online I just have never been bothered to buy it
Posted by arsepuppy, 15:04, 9th July 2003:
 
Play is excellent for DVD's but for music, I don't like it at all based on the lack of choice.
Posted by chay, 15:07, 9th July 2003:
 
yeah i havent bought many CDs on it.
I did order the new Eels one last week (on wednesday and it arrived friday)
£8.99 like a lot of the online stores.

sod going to a shop and getting it the same day :) its not worth an extra £4 or more for that :)
Posted by arsepuppy, 15:12, 9th July 2003:
 
My nearest "good" CD shop would be HMV. Which charge 18-odd quid for a CD. Unless it's "Screamadelica", which for some reason always costs £4.99.
Posted by chay, 15:13, 9th July 2003:
 
yeah i occasionaly browse HMV and the like, just to see if there are any bargins, or if i want to look at a CD i might want. but then i will go and buy it online. soooo much cheaper
Posted by beargod, 15:14, 9th July 2003:
 
I go to the non franchise cd shops cos they always seem to have a deal on and they usually know more about the music they are selling
Posted by arsepuppy, 15:15, 9th July 2003:
 
There aren't any in Oxford for some reason. Back home there's loads. Leicester's good as well.