Not that i've got anything to say of course.
So what do you think of the pedestrianization of Norwich City Center?
Posted by
Sul, 15:05, 12th January 2004:
I'm currently writing my "Pulling Birds While Working on the Helpdesk" guide*. So far I have the follow tips:
1: When resetting passwords advise them to write it down on a bit of paper and use the following format: (YourName07xxxxxxxxx) where 07xxxxxxxxx is your telephone number.
2: When asked the common question, “Is it really stressful there?” reply with something like, “yeah it’s stressful but not as bad as when I was teaching English to under privileged 5 year olds in Mongolia. That was stressful. But it’s all worth the while when they tell you ‘Thank you Mr Sullivan. You’ve changed my life forever. No longer will the days be dark and gloomy since you taught me English in this roomy’”
3: Always sign off the telephone in as cool a manner as possible. Remember, you need to break down the business-like conversation boundaries. The more relaxed you are the more relaxed she’ll be. Try using “word out” or an even more nonchalant “whatever” before hanging up.
4: A vital thing all ladies are looking for is someone to provide protection for them. Not in the condom vending machine sense but from danger in the form of muggers and lizards trying to steal their eggs. You can achieve the illusion that you’re well ‘ard over the telephone by stiffening up one of you lips and talking while holding your nose. If she enquires why you’re speaking funny you can inform her of the ruckus you got into last Thursday where you single handedly protected your small group of purely platonic female friends from a large group of drunken, bad-tempered commandos.
*These havent worked for me yet but they will soon
Posted by
tommorris, 15:11, 12th January 2004:
Problem is that if you pull you have to fix their computer. And they might buy you dorky programming books as birthday presents. Or put a "127.0.0.1" sign on your door.
The consequences are unimaginably bad.
Posted by
tommorris, 15:19, 12th January 2004:
"We're not just going out, we're an
Extreme Programming pair too!"
Posted by
Brock, 15:28, 12th January 2004:
You could try shifting in your chair noisily, till either she mentions it, or you 'suddenly' feel the need to apologise for it. Then...
"I'm terribly sorry I keep shifting about, but my enormous penis makes siting on a normal size chair uncomfortable, and my boss won't pay for a chaise longue (spelling?) to allow me to get the end of it off the floor, as it rubs on the carpet. So sorry. Anyway, you were saying...?"
Worth a go.
Posted by
Sul, 16:16, 12th January 2004:
A few more tips:
5: As the user/customer on the end of the phone will never have met you, you need to paint a mental image of what you look like in their head. With practice you can make this a subtle art.
You: Ouch!
User: Ohh what’s up?
You: I just caught my knee on this tiny desk. Its really tough sometimes being so tall... dark and handsome.
6: It’s a common misconception that all IT personnel get paid loads. Of course we don’t but it helps to play on it. Lasses love a man who can provide. If you can, mention top brand foodstuffs that you recently bought.
7: She’s the damsel in distress, the PC is the dragon and you’re the knight in shining armour. Fix those problems first line. All those birds in the fairy tales had itchy knickers for the knight.
8: All women subconsciously want a virile man to help them open up a sprog farm. Again this is a difficult attribute to get across over the phone but practice makes perfect:
You: If you could find the icons on the system tray please.
User: The little ones?
You: Yes. Oh that reminds me. I’ve got to pay my 23 child support bills today.
I admire your powers of self-delusion.
Posted by
Brock, 16:19, 12th January 2004:
8. No worky. They realise that all your money is accounted for, and can't go onto them. Cue sound of rapidly disappearing high heels...
so sul, where do i queue?
Posted by
Brock, 16:23, 12th January 2004:
Christ! It's a winner!
*newfound respect for sul*
Posted by
Sul, 16:24, 12th January 2004:
Brock: You're forgetting the top-brand foodstuffs, innit. ;)
The ladies may form an orderly queue at Waterloo (London) train station where adequate policing can be available if things turn nasty.
and when do the auditions commence?
Posted by
Sul, 16:35, 12th January 2004:
Thursday 15th January at 6PM
Posted by
friday, 09:52, 13th January 2004:
;-)
Posted by
earthworm, 13:41, 13th January 2004:
Do some more Sul... These are well funny...
Posted by
Brock, 18:48, 13th January 2004:
Funny? Were they supposed to be funny?
Goddamn it. Now I have 24hrs of groundwork to undo...
oh come on, the sure fire way to bag chicks when you work on helpdesk is to just give them priotity 1 for every call - even if they just cant be arsed to refill their printer paper. also to ensure they get the best kit. i tell ya, at my previous firm it was legendary what some chicks would do for a cordless mouse
Posted by
Sul, 22:03, 13th January 2004:
reeeallly? *makes note*
Posted by
friday, 12:22, 14th January 2004:
*resists the urge to start a "right which one of you lot has got a cordless mouse and how did you get it" thread*
I have a cordless mouse. i bought it.
Posted by
trim..., 12:30, 14th January 2004:
i have a cordless mouse. i took a pair of scissors to my regular mouse. it doesnt work any more.
Posted by
Brock, 12:37, 14th January 2004:
I have a trackball. i had to kick up a fuss to get it. Then they took the cost out of my wages. Bastards.
Posted by
trim..., 12:40, 14th January 2004:
well, at least you can take it with you when you leave if you paid for it. why would anyone want a trackball though?
Posted by
Sul, 12:44, 14th January 2004:
LAZY PEOPLE! "Oh I cant be arsed to move my whole hand"
Posted by
trim..., 13:07, 14th January 2004:
what you want is a graphics tablet.. much better and more fun than a mouse and you can get handwriting recognition software so you dont even have to type anymore.
Posted by
Brock, 13:10, 14th January 2004:
Because of my large, manly, hands, I find that mice are too small, and I get cramp when I am doing CAD stuff.
Obviously your nancy effeminate hands are ideally suited for such things...
Posted by
WarHead, 13:16, 14th January 2004:
Vic, he say
I admire your powers of self-delusion.
He's right, I think. If you want to know what totty wants, you have to ask totty. AngelD seems to be a good source of info.
I've been in IT support for 10 years and even though I give the hot totty priority the only thing I've ever got was a peck on the cheek.
And just a thought about women wanting men with a huge dong. A lot of them don't like it when they get one, cos sinking the whole plunger can be painful for them.
Posted by
Brock, 13:19, 14th January 2004:
It's not that unpopular. You just have to have your hand around the last 3 inches to stop it going in so you don't snap their spines.
Oh, and AngelD? is she any relation to SunnyD?
Posted by
WarHead, 13:31, 14th January 2004:
I spend enough time gripping the damn thing as it is without having to do it while I'm on the job as well.
Posted by
trim..., 13:34, 14th January 2004:
Brock, are you talking from experience?
I'd say average is the way to go, not too big, not too small, although it all depends on how much the girl 'puts it about' as to how it'll fit ;)
Posted by
Liandle, 14:43, 14th January 2004:
Hoo this is a hot topic...*blushes* Trim are you a girl?
Posted by
trim..., 15:33, 14th January 2004:
i like to ask myself that question sometimes...
Posted by
Liandle, 15:40, 14th January 2004:
Aw, c'mon Trim...I need some moral support here in this male-dominated domain. I had to show my TITS girl! You gotta have some sympathy.
Posted by
Brock, 15:40, 14th January 2004:
Being as none of you can prove otherwise. Of course I'm talking from experience.
Posted by
tommorris, 18:56, 14th January 2004:
Roll up! Roll up! Eligible bachelors are here! And ready for you! Ladies of the world, we present the cream of the Internet's manhood: iamcal.com's userbase!
great. submit cv's to me @
angeld@girthnotlength.com
Posted by
Liandle, 07:53, 15th January 2004:
Tom can we have a picture of you please?
Posted by
tommorris, 19:47, 15th January 2004:
Don't do pictures, I'm afraid.
Posted by
cal, 20:10, 15th January 2004:
liar! i've seen photos of you. if i were less apathetic i'd find one and put it on your profile
Posted by
tommorris, 20:55, 15th January 2004:
I might do one some other time. When I'm less tired of seeing images of myself (I've just been helping to edit a video which I have a 'cameo' (read: crap) performance in).
Posted by
WarHead, 10:25, 16th January 2004:
trim "it all depends on how much the girl 'puts it about' as to how it'll fit ;)"
I thought the vagina was actually pretty elastic so 'one size fits all' until/unless it gets stretched beyond it's point of elasticity (or whatever it's calles - *tries to remember 'O' level physics*)
Posted by
trim..., 12:43, 16th January 2004:
I think it's like a top that's made from a cotton/lycra mix... if you lend it to a fat friend, it won't stay stretched but it'll never quite be tight enough for its skinnier owner..
and the older it gets, the more the elastic degrades..
unless of course the person in question regularly excercises their pelvic floor muscles to keep themselves nice n snug. (i was going to put in a tumble drier analogy but i think i've taken it too far already)
Posted by
WarHead, 14:04, 16th January 2004:
I haven't heard the tumble dryer one. Do tell.
Posted by
Liandle, 14:13, 16th January 2004:
Trim:hee hee hee good one, I am also curious about how a tumble dryer can fit in here? er...not a good choice of words!
Posted by
trim..., 14:18, 16th January 2004:
well, the better your pelvic floor muscles are, the tighter you can grip boys willys. so if we continue the cotton/lycra mix top analogy, it'd be like putting said stretched top in the tumble drier so it shrank and was a very snug fit once more.
Posted by
Liandle, 14:25, 16th January 2004:
*blushes*
oh.
care to describe the excercises? (only kidding)
Posted by
trim..., 14:28, 16th January 2004:
the excercises are easy. when you go for a piss just clench so you stop pissing a few times.. do that every time you go to the loo and they'll get stronger. a friend of mine recommended you clench those muscles every time you walk through a doorway. there's also a load of other excercises they give to ladies who've just given birth because once a baby's gone through there the muscles are bound to be fucked.
Posted by
WarHead, 14:36, 16th January 2004:
I think you'll find they were ALREADY fucked. ;0)
Stopping your wee mid-stream is also good exercise for guys.
Posted by
Liandle, 14:41, 16th January 2004:
OK. Thanks. *squeeze*
Posted by
Liandle, 14:42, 16th January 2004:
What does it do for guys then?
Posted by
trim..., 14:43, 16th January 2004:
strengthen's their pc muscles, means they can uh 'hold off' for longer and do all sorts of incredible penis gymnastics.
all in all, these muscles are good and should be looked after
Posted by
Liandle, 14:47, 16th January 2004:
We allowed to talk about sex here? Does anyone else talk about sex here? (dn't want cal to boot me off) 'coz there's a few more questions I would like to ask Trim.
Posted by
cal, 16:40, 16th January 2004:
i'm not about to boot anyone off
Posted by
Liandle, 16:48, 16th January 2004:
ok. why do women take so long and men don't?
Posted by
Liandle, 17:13, 16th January 2004:
you know what i mean...
Posted by
Sul, 17:15, 16th January 2004:
You shouldnt complain. Some women can't climax at all. Its God's way of punishing them.
Posted by
Liandle, 17:19, 16th January 2004:
i don't take long when i do it myself, but for some reason when i'm with a man i take forever. don't think that's normal...does that happen to any other women?
Posted by
arsepuppy, 17:30, 16th January 2004:
I'd like to say yes here but I was born without a mimsy.
Posted by
cal, 17:33, 16th January 2004:
i think the answer is simply "because all men are shit"
Posted by
Liandle, 17:33, 16th January 2004:
well what about your girlfriends then? anyone ever complain of that?
Posted by
Sul, 17:34, 16th January 2004:
Its as simple as this: Noone can wank you off quite as well as you can wank you off.
Posted by
arsepuppy, 17:39, 16th January 2004:
Exactly. And when you use your left hand, it's the best of both worlds.
Posted by
arsepuppy, 17:39, 16th January 2004:
(unless you are left-handed)
(then you use your right hand)
Posted by
Liandle, 17:42, 16th January 2004:
cal:do you mean because they aren't really bothered with waiting for the woman and/or finding out what makes her tick?
sul:oh. so maybe it is normal. i guess maybe when you been with someone long enough...
do you guys love your girlfriends enough to try and do all this or do you just try and get away with not...shit..this is so hard to explain
Posted by
Liandle, 17:47, 16th January 2004:
*sigh*...it's so hard to express what i mean without sounding like i'm judging you fellas. i'm not...i just wanna know and there isn't anyone i can ask.
Posted by
Liandle, 17:55, 16th January 2004:
that's not very nice
Posted by
Liandle, 17:56, 16th January 2004:
i'm being honest here...not the time to be sarcastic
Well there's really only one option then, tell him to go 'route B' that should sort you right out, and as an added bonus, No babys!
Posted by
Liandle, 18:13, 16th January 2004:
vic, there's no need to be a pig
Posted by
Liandle, 18:23, 16th January 2004:
well, now i know why you been on this site so long and still haven't been brave enough to put up your real pic. oink
Posted by
arsepuppy, 18:27, 16th January 2004:
Um... he has a couple of times, me dear.
Well, thats the last time i try to broaden your horizons.
Posted by
Liandle, 18:33, 16th January 2004:
that's not what you were doing, you were being a pig and you know that...but nevermind...obviously one can't have a serious, honest discussion with you because you're not capable
Posted by
Liandle, 18:34, 16th January 2004:
anyway...it's getting late...i better go.
see you soon
bye
Posted by
arsepuppy, 18:34, 16th January 2004:
Oy Vey.......... calm down! Have a sense of humour :)
Posted by
RUSS, 18:46, 16th January 2004:
vic you pig/big bully
Posted by
Miki, 23:20, 16th January 2004:
LOL yay vic !
Posted by
WarHead, 00:45, 17th January 2004:
Liandle: ok. why do women take so long and men don't?
This is not always true. Men can take too damn long sometimes, in fact so long that they end up not coming at all. (I can say the 'C' word, see?). But experienced guys (e.g. 'older' ;0) ) sometimes take more care to please their partner before themselves. Young guys and foreplay are often strangers, which is a shame because it's like a good starter before a main course (don't ask about the sweet/pudding.)
Actually, I think it's all natures cruel trick on us.
Posted by
Brock, 15:16, 18th January 2004:
Also, there is sometimes a compatability thing, if what gets inside your head (presses the right mental as well as physical butttons), is the same as what gets inside
their head, the chances of coincidental 'arriving' can increase. I reckon it's always best to bring them off a few times first, then they don't give you so much crap when you want to go to sleep afterwards.
But the biggest factor is why they are 'doing it' in the first place. Whether it's to give pleasure to someone, or to get their rocks off. If it's 'a' then finding out what makes them tick is both the whole point, and the fun part...
My goodness, this topic suddenly got a bit graphic!
What day is it again?
Posted by
Brock, 18:12, 18th January 2004:
Sunday. The day that those 'with' choose to stay in bed all day humping. And those that are alone, go to the pub and dream of the days that they were 'with' and stayed in bed all day etc. etc.
Anyway, what's wrong with graphic? Are you trying to deny the real world, hence all detailed information is not welcome? If it works, btw, then tell me so I can try it...
I think you must have a very different perception of Sundays to me. Sunday to me means toast, marmalade, coffee, and working.
Or just going on the internet without very much purpose.
Posted by
tommorris, 19:45, 18th January 2004:
Toast - yes. Marmalade and coffe - no. Pointless internet wandering - doesn't require a Sunday.
Posted by
Liandle, 07:45, 19th January 2004:
Hi Warhead; Brock; Sul and Cal : Thanks for responding informatively as apposed to some of the sarky responses.
-----------------------------------------------------
I don't think this is really my sort of place, but it's been fun. If anyone would like to correspond with me privately my email address is on the profile. (Liandle30@hotmail.com)
Thanks Cal, for a fun website...thanks for making me feel welcome.
Cheers everyone
Luv
Lianne
one of my best lesbian friends and i had a long girly chat about this on a terrace in ibiza...
i hate the v word but i'm aiming for the clinical vibe rather than a Razzle one, so here goes...
there are 2 types of vaginas. type A is best described as generous. fleshy and packed with nerve endings. type B is best described as stingy. its kind of lean.
type A are infinitely easier to orgasm. type B more difficult.
it also helps significantly if the girl is not too shy to masturbate during intercourse
*dr pam is away this week
of course i dont recommend it as a 1st date question. i'm afraid you just have to audition!
Posted by
Brock, 12:41, 19th January 2004:
/fights urge to ask obvious question
Don't worry Brock, i'll ask it for you.
Where has Dr Pam gone?
Posted by
Brock, 12:44, 19th January 2004:
erm... I didn't mean that one. Must be more of a perv than you... A or B?
Posted by
trim..., 13:20, 19th January 2004:
you're asking vic if he's A or B? you filthy perve
Well i'm flattered Brock, you're a good looking fella and all that but i don't do that 'Blue on Blue' type thing.
Why don't you ask sul instead?
Posted by
Brock, 13:24, 19th January 2004:
But wouldn't that mean I was saying that he was a cu...oh...I get it now... ;)
Posted by
trim..., 13:24, 19th January 2004:
i dont.
Posted by
Brock, 13:25, 19th January 2004:
And you're looking a lot better in your profile pic, by the way Vic.
Posted by
Sul, 13:28, 19th January 2004:
I'd have to say I was an A type gurl. A reet slutty kebab and no mistake.
Posted by
Brock, 13:30, 19th January 2004:
At least all this confusion should stop ad from kicking the crap out of me for asking very personal questions, anyway. Phew...
And anyway, when you say "best lesbian friend" do you mean "best lesbian", or "best friend that is lesbian". I have images of a score sheet with categories such as 'tongue action', 'ability to hold breath/breathe through ears', and maybe such negative categories such as 'presence of skinhead haircut', and 'looks more like a bloke than a bloke' etc., etc.
Posted by
trim..., 13:32, 19th January 2004:
well it would have, had you not just brought it up again.
i hear sul is a big ole slut, it's written in the loos at waterloo, along with his telephone number..
Posted by
Sul, 13:34, 19th January 2004:
It's true. I put it there.
Posted by
trim..., 13:35, 19th January 2004:
I thought it was your handwriting.
Posted by
Brock, 13:35, 19th January 2004:
Probably would have been cleverer to put it in the ladies toilet though, doofus.
Posted by
trim..., 13:36, 19th January 2004:
it is in the ladies, he's a big fleshy vagina'd slut, he cannot pee standing up.
Posted by
Brock, 13:38, 19th January 2004:
Oh. I thought he meant he
was a big fleshy vagina.
Posted by
Sul, 13:40, 19th January 2004:
I'll be whatever you want me to be, honey.
Posted by
Brock, 13:41, 19th January 2004:
You smooth talking bastard. Such charm I have never seen in one so young. Bet you pull all the time!
Posted by
trim..., 13:41, 19th January 2004:
that's exactly what it said!
Posted by
Brock, 13:42, 19th January 2004:
And yes, there is 2 ways of taking the last sentence...
Posted by
trim..., 13:43, 19th January 2004:
is there?
Posted by
Brock, 13:54, 19th January 2004:
'having a pull' is a euphamism for masturbating. ;)
Posted by
trim..., 13:58, 19th January 2004:
oh i seeeee. sorry, boy slang often leaves me baffled.
if i knew how to set up a poll about this i would if i could be arsed
Posted by
Brock, 14:15, 19th January 2004:
Unless it was a "what have you got, and/or what do you prefer" poll, it could be a bit too one-sided.
Are there any 'types' of todger that spring (wahey!) to mind?
yes. nice ones and not nice ones
Posted by
trim..., 14:29, 19th January 2004:
there's the obvious rollneck or sans rollneck option. me, i like a nice jewish boy :)
Posted by
Brock, 14:30, 19th January 2004:
Ha-ha!
Highly descriptive! Top marks.
i'm with you trim. cannot stand excessive foreskin.
or pubes.
in fact i cant stand pubes at all
Posted by
Brock, 14:34, 19th January 2004:
way too scary to put anything sharp near my old chap! It makes me shudder just to think how many times I have cut my
face shaving to even consider it...
Is shaving common, or do you insist on it for every new bloke when you've checked. (No implication on numbers, by the way)
Posted by
trim..., 14:35, 19th January 2004:
brock, they don't make you do it yourself.. so i wouldn't worry.. although i would worry if you were my surgeon.
ooops. sorry that sounded a bit chavvy.
of course, i meant to say 'foliage'
who said anything about blades? waxing is the only way to go
oh and there's always imaac (for wimps)
Posted by
trim..., 14:52, 19th January 2004:
no no, imacs are for geeks..
oh you mean immac.. oops.
Posted by
Brock, 14:53, 19th January 2004:
Still un-convinced. Waxing legs seems ok in principle, but there is a fair amount of slack skin on a nut sack. You'd have to get such a run-up. how do I know that it won't just come right off when they try and pull the strip off?
My eyes are watering...
unless yr balls are stuck on with velcro, it shouldnt be a problem brock
oops i meant 'veet' trim. they did an awful jif/cif, oil of olay/ulay thing on that product line too
Posted by
trim..., 14:56, 19th January 2004:
as long as you hold the skin taught when you're sticking and pulling, you'll be fine. i bet it's itchy when it grows back. and those ingrown hairs, nightmare.
Posted by
trim..., 14:57, 19th January 2004:
so they did! veet, rhymes with feet. immac, rhymes with nutsac. hmm?
its not at all. i can vouch for that.
so much more hygienic too.
my mother makes her boyfriends shave their armpits too but i think thats going a bit too far
maybe it was really designed for hairy feet!
they're pretty rancid too
Posted by
friday, 15:05, 19th January 2004:
"but there is a fair amount of slack skin on a nut sack. You'd have to get such a run-up"
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
my eyes are also watering at the thought and who, other than lesbians have their balls stuck on with velcro?
fri i just didnt wanna judge brock. there are all kinds of ppl in this world. i'm sure somewhere a guy has had their balls cut off then changed their mind. it cld have been brock for all i know.
but its still not a sufficient excuse for hairy balls
Posted by
Brock, 15:13, 19th January 2004:
Oi! My nut sack is firmly attached, thank you! i would just very much prefer it stayed that way, and maybe would also prefer to stay on the cautious side...
Never tried to pull it off (so to speak) so not sure how strong it is!
Never heard this aversion to hairy balls (heard the one about roll necks though). Does anyone else share this aversion?
(to try and get off the subject of my scrotum)
Angeldelight, Although you have a hugely-impressive frontal arrangement, Your pursuit of freshly shorn scrotums means you will just have to admire me from afar, there's no way i'm interfering with my magnificently hirsuite two-wheeled porridge cannon.
brock in the absence of dr pam we can talk about yr scrotum on msn if it makes you more comfortable
Posted by
chris, 15:18, 19th January 2004:
LMAO!!!!
"hugely-impressive frontal arrangement"
please interpret - i dont read fhm
(i only look at the pictures)
Posted by
Brock, 15:27, 19th January 2004:
It doesn't make me uncomfortable. The idea of ripping all the hairs out makes me uncomfortable! And I am working, so can't do MSN until I go home. so there.
Didn't want to dominate the thread with my genitals, either.
So to speak.
Well, In the words of Lord John Marbury "Your breasts are Magnificent!"
Posted by
friday, 15:32, 19th January 2004:
very decent of you Brock!
Posted by
Miki, 15:33, 19th January 2004:
for a third girls opinion: smooth is really really nice, but its not such a big deal as to warrant dangerous/painful stunts :)
Posted by
Brock, 15:34, 19th January 2004:
Why would it hurt the woman?....oh, sorry... mis-read that... ;)
DrPamsDeputy@hotmail.com
clinic open now
snigger free guarantee
Posted by
Miki, 15:35, 19th January 2004:
:D you're right, Im not waxing there either !
erm thanks vic, but i dont want to domninate the thread with my breastage either
let me break it down to you boys in language you understand.
smooth=more action.
who ever enjoyed pubes stuck in their teeth???
Posted by
Sul, 15:48, 19th January 2004:
Ive enjoyed pubes stuck in other peoples teeth. Does that count?
Posted by
Brock, 15:53, 19th January 2004:
I can superglue them all on so they don't come out during that, erm, kind of activity. Will that do? Could be worth testing...?
Posted by
Brock, 15:54, 19th January 2004:
ad - in relative terms, you would be significantly more able to dominate this thread than me, on that basis.
I'm not convinced, aren't there some women out there who would take one look and say something along the lines of "eeek, a great dangly elbow! I'm not polishing that"?
Posted by
Brock, 16:06, 19th January 2004:
(poetic license for Mr Menendez)
well it depends vic. which end of the market are you shopping at?? fortnum & mason or lidl?
Well, I've never heard of the first two, does that narrow it down?
in that case keep yr mangy pubes, cos the lidl league chicks are likely to be even hairier than you!
hair-free cuts both ways you know ;-p
if i got to endure it so must he
Posted by
Brock, 19:06, 19th January 2004:
Trimmed is ok. The full 'Bouffant' is a bit hard to cope with. Makes me sneeze halfway through. Bit of a passion killer that...