Posted by
Rosie, 16:06, 13th January 2004:
Good.
Posted by
Sul, 16:11, 13th January 2004:
I think he was murdered. Doesnt look like his normal MO.
In fact, I dont give a fuck.
Posted by
trim..., 21:54, 13th January 2004:
People who are given multiple life sentences (ie with no possible chance of being released in the future) should be given the opportunity to take their own lives. DISCUSS.
(there was a guy in america who got multiple life sentences in a state where they didn't have the death penalty who took his case to court and was granted the right to take his own life.. although it is seen as a form of euthenasia which is illegal in britain)
Posted by
Brock, 00:02, 14th January 2004:
Fuck 'em. Let them suffer for a year or two to allow time to prove them innocent. Then take their life for them. If they deserve multiple life sentences (given the 2 years to allow for mistakes/miscarriages of justice) then fry the fuckers.
don't see why my taxes should pay £40K a year to keep them in TV and library access. Once guilt is completely established. Fry-em.
Discuss.
Although on one hand I believe that they should be kept inside prison to rot, on the other hand it does take the p!ss how much we are paying to keep them in our already full (so therefore very expensive to run) prisons.
Brock, i think if someone chose to take their life it is pretty certain they were guilty, otherwise they would probably have a glimmer of hope they will be freed and choose not to. Saying that i would probably say a good system is to have 2 years or so to make sure they are guilty etc, then give them the choice to take their own life.
Don't agree with execution under any circumstances. Don't particularly care that he's dead though. Wonder how much the inquest will cost?
and why should there be a inquest? He is dead, he killed himself, end of story. Lets not waste yet more money on the nutter.
And I also dont agree with execution.
Posted by
RUSS, 09:27, 14th January 2004:
he was given the opportunity to end his own life. it was done on purpose. i f they wanted or neede him alive they would have made sure he stayed that way.
Plus he had a dreadful beard!
Posted by
Brock, 09:33, 14th January 2004:
Not sure about the suicide being proof of guilt, actually. Think there may be some people who would lose all hope after a year. You would have to be a pretty strong person to be able to cope with being locked up 24hrs in max security with a load of murderers, rapists and generally scum kind of people. But with DNA testing available and getting better, then proof should be easier to get.
Why should we pay £40K a year for
each multiple murderer etc. when they may be 25 or so when convicted. They could live for another 40-50 years!!! That's up to 2 million quid for only 1 prisoner, not counting the cost of the trial! Multiple life sentences preclude them ever getting out, so what's the point of them being alive?
I might be being a bit provocational here, but the basis of the point is interesting, I reckon
Posted by
Sul, 10:19, 14th January 2004:
Theyre alive because taking another persons life, no matter what theyve done, is considered morally wrong.
I think "The Running Man" is the way to go.
Posted by
Sul, 10:20, 14th January 2004:
Although I think Shipman wouldve been a bit shit at it. Huntley might have a good run though.
Posted by
cal, 10:36, 14th January 2004:
the james bulger killers would have been the underdog favourites
oooh, i'd have liked to see Buzzsaw get medievel on their respective asses.
Why should we pay £40K a year for each multiple murderer etc. when they may be 25 or so when convicted. They could live for another 40-50 years!!! That's up to 2 million quid for only 1 prisoner, not counting the cost of the trial! Multiple life sentences preclude them ever getting out, so what's the point of them being alive?
A capital trial costs a fortune in the US. Every person exectuted in Florida currently costs the state $3.2 million. In California it costs 10 times the amount to execute somebody as it does to keep them in prison for life. New York estimated that re-instatment of the death penalty would cost $118 million a year. It's not a cheap business.
If the prisoner wants to kill themselves then they will. Fred West was on suicide watch when he topped himself.
For the death penalty to even be judically acceptable, not even addressing the moral issue, you have to have a situation where everybody invloved in the arrest and trial and non-prejudiced and infallible. That can't happen. Murder is still murder even with a rubber stamp on it.
Posted by
Sul, 11:21, 14th January 2004:
What about in gameshow form?
Posted by
trim..., 11:25, 14th January 2004:
That would be the best tv ever, heck i'd even consider getting digital for that. I wonder what sort of people would want to advertise on that kind of show?
Posted by
Brock, 11:25, 14th January 2004:
Here we go again. You can say killing is wrong, but murder is not murder if it is rubber stamped by definition, it being the pre-meditated
un-lawful killing of a person or persons.
Interested by the "costs twice as much to execute than keep them" argument. Don't understand how, though. More rigourous checking of the sentence, maybe? Can't see how 40 years at £40k a year can cost the same as a syringe full of 'bad-stuff', or leaving the bloke alone with a nice rope for a couple of days and letting him make his own mind up!
Any further info?
Death penalty stuff
It's old but there's some stuff here. Do a google search and there's quite a lot of info. Not all of it is from hippy domains either :D . Some is from state enquiries and so on. I don't really understand it either. I guess it's the extra costs involved in the trial, the checking of equipment, licences and fees etc.
Fair enough. I'm against the killing of murderers for their crimes. Seems a bit like punishing a rapist by raping them, and who the hell would agree with that?
Posted by
Brock, 11:40, 14th January 2004:
Maybe they would understand how wrong it is, and the impact it can have, actually. You may be on to something there...!
My view point is (roughly) that if a human being is 'malfunctioning' in such a way to do these crimes repeatedly, then they are obviously 'broken' and can't be re-habilitated. So they shouldn't be a burden to the rest of the race. especially with the massive reduction in natural selection that we have produced with medical advances. We will be over-crowded and potentially destroy ourselves before too many hundreds of years.
Posted by
trim..., 11:45, 14th January 2004:
you can't play god like that! if we were doing natural selection then hell why not get rid of all the people with genetic disorders so they can't pass them on in the future, or maybe just refuse to treat them in hospital. crikey.
i think we should send all the criminals to australia like we used to. or maybe to mars.
Posted by
trim..., 11:47, 14th January 2004:
by the way, i'm not comparing dangerous mentalists to people with unfortunate illness.. i was merely making a point about natural selection.. you know, before anyone tries to hurt me
Posted by
Brock, 12:14, 14th January 2004:
Nice back pedal! I'm just putting forward a concept in it's most extreme way.
We shouldn't send them to Oz, it's too nice, and I'm trying to organise moving there! Send them to East Anglia or France. Somewhere shit.
Posted by
trim..., 12:16, 14th January 2004:
heh.. excellent! send the murdering bastards to france.. one stone, two problems.. that'll make vic happy :)
Posted by
trim..., 12:17, 14th January 2004:
(sorry brock about that btw, i'm in the mood for a fight today and gary's not around to pick on)
Posted by
Sul, 12:19, 14th January 2004:
fucking french
Posted by
trim..., 12:20, 14th January 2004:
oh yeah, and it'll keep sul happy too.
Maybe they would understand how wrong it is, and the impact it can have, actually. You may be on to something there...!"
So you don't think there is anything wrong with raping somebody, be it man or woman, in order to show them that raping somebody is wrong? Seriously? The person who carried out the sentence would have to be just as morally deficiant as the criminal.
Posted by
Brock, 12:26, 14th January 2004:
Couldn't find the 'ironic' button on the html list.
Don't get so worked up. Of course rape is wrong, dopey. I have enough trouble when ex-girlfriends have had rape fantasies, cos the idea of not stopping when they say no feels too wrong...
Posted by
trim..., 12:28, 14th January 2004:
well you could get other convicted rapists to rape the other rapists.. whilst covered in rape seed oil.. whilst listening to nirvana's 'rape me'. its perfect. that'd make a great tv show too.
Posted by
trim..., 13:09, 14th January 2004:
wow, i am the best thread-killer that ever lived.
Posted by
cal, 13:09, 14th January 2004:
they already made it - it's on channel 5 i believe
Posted by
trim..., 13:11, 14th January 2004:
darn.
Posted by
Brock, 13:11, 14th January 2004:
trim... you get my crown, then, look at the last month or so.. :(
Sorry Brock, hard to tell sometimes on a forum. I didn't really think you were advocating it, like I said just hard to tell sometimes.
Posted by
Brock, 13:22, 14th January 2004:
Nae bother, chuckie.
Posted by
trim..., 13:23, 14th January 2004:
lets have a competition to see who can kill the most threads!
i'm hoping this will work as a form of reverse psychology
Ooops sorry about the late reply, Brock i agree that letting people kill themselves is not bullet proof, but i think it is more likely to separate the guilty from the innocent than just executing them after two years.
What are peoples thoughts on people that commit crimes because of a mental illness?
Also whats "The Running Man"?
Posted by
Sul, 13:55, 14th January 2004:
Thats the one.
www.imdb.com/title/tt0093894/
Posted by
trim..., 13:56, 14th January 2004:
imdb.com
Based on a book by Stephen King. One of those books that bares only the very slightest resemblance to the film. The book is more like Series 7: The Contenders.
take the recent example of the albanian illegal immigrant who murdered a guy. escaped back to albania then thought sod this. lifes a bit crap here. rang the respective police force and said: it was me, pay for a flight back for me. apparently he was open about his motive being that an extended stretch of 3 meals a day, sky tv, amateur dramatics and pocket money was more appealing.
prison is too cushy. if the hardcore are going to retain the privilege of breathing then they should be made to do the grottiest, scuzziest jobs to earn their keep. or offered the alternative of being left alone in a room for a few hours with a couple of blunt, rusty razors blades.
Posted by
Liandle, 07:30, 15th January 2004:
The problem is that knowing the imperfections of the judicial system, what if you're the poor bastard who gets wrongly convicted? Is it fair to punish people to the full extent of the law when we can't even be sure we've got the right bloke?
Better a thousand innocent men are found guilty than one guilty man go free.
Not if your the innocent man it isn't.
Ah what the hell, put me down for a murder and a bank robbery.
According to the preliminary inquest findings, shipman killed himself because he ran out of patience.
Patience? What was he waiting for?
Posted by
Miki, 12:17, 15th January 2004:
LOL
Posted by
Sul, 12:18, 15th January 2004:
I heard he came to the end of his tether
oops...far to smart for me that one Vic.
Prison Governor commenting on the death of Dr Harold Shipman:
"He will be sorely missed by the prison boxing team, He had a lethal jab"
Posted by
arsepuppy, 15:34, 15th January 2004:
GENIUS.
so who told you that one eh, Vic? ;)
AP, you finished Uni yet?
Posted by
arsepuppy, 15:40, 15th January 2004:
nah, I went back to do my final year. Wish I hadn't, it's arse.
Posted by
arsepuppy, 15:48, 15th January 2004:
yeah, there is that.
Posted by
Sul, 17:46, 15th January 2004:
Harold Shipman was having a curry for his last meal. The Prison warden asks "How's your Korma?" To which Shipman replies.....
Not bad, but I could murder another nan.
Posted by
arsepuppy, 17:47, 15th January 2004:
hee hee!
Posted by
arsepuppy, 17:47, 15th January 2004:
Excellent.