Posted by
JohnM, 21:08, 29th June 2000:
I tried to reply but it didn't accept carriage returns.
That throws off the whole 7 days thing - would it really have taken 6 days to create the earth but only a few minutes to create all the billions of stars in the universe? I doubt it.
He's GOD. He can do ANYTHING.
If the bible is true, then I wont go to hell (because god loves everyone, remember...).
He loves you so much that he offers you enternal life... but you have to accept it. If someone gives you a gift and you don't accept it, it isn't valid.
It's a good point. I wont be more finacially secure. I wont be any happier - I'd much rather not rely upon anyone who I could never meet.
You will meet him someday... just hope he's happy to meet you.
I wont live longer.
Oh you will... just depends on whether or not you trust Jesus where you'll spend that time! Heaven or Hell... it's up to you.
As science axpands to answer questions, religion shrinks
Quite the contrary. Do you REALLY think that all of us just "accidentally" came into being? Come on. Science just goes to further PROVE creation.
I'll post more later...
John Miller
Posted by
spaz, 21:17, 29th June 2000:
[snip]
Posted by
pault, 15:31, 30th June 2000:
What we all have to understand here is the most obvious thing - that believers and non-believers are never going to agree with each other - therefore true debate is in order, not comments like "That really shows the kind of person you are". None of us are in any position to judge each other on the existence (or not) of beliefs, no matter what our own convictions are. So let's keep it nice.It's interesting that most Christian creationist arguments go along the lines of 'Well, no-one's proved it happened any other way, it's so marvellous and huge, God must have created it!'. True, pure science hasn't proved anything beyond doubt, but if we take the Creationists theory to its word, the Earth was only created about 5,000 years ago, which science CAN prove to be complete, utter rot. Can Christians explain the existence of dinosaurs, ancient moths trapped in lava, and all manner of fossils that date back millions of years?Nonewithstanding many personal issues that lead me to be a humanist, I do truly admire the conviction Christians can hold whilst faced with such indisputable evidence against the existance of any given deity. It normally runs along the lines of "but.. he's God! He can do ANYTHING!"... not the most convincing of arguments.Human evil's a thorny one as well. God is good, God is all-powerful, yet evil happens. Therefore God is either not Good for letting evil happen, or He has no control over our evil, therefore He is not all-powerful. Both statements CANNOT be true. So which is which?Frankly, it is not up to us to disprove the existence of a God. It is an outrageous claim made by the believers, and the burden of proof is upon them.
Posted by
paulus, 15:44, 30th June 2000:
My brush with god came quite recently. He picked on me for some reason. I can neither prove or disprove anything, the burden is on no-one. One just has to face this existence with whatever experiences you have to develop your awareness. But my foot is definitely in the god camp.The problem I guess is one of perception. The western manifestation for want of a better phrase is a God who exists as an all powerful being. The Eastern approach is more holistic, tending toward the acceptance of an awareness of which we are all part (that's what I'm wearing around my neck by the way - or at least in essense). As PaulT notes, one has to admire dedication in the face of adversity - my natural (and quite scary) cynicism gave in under the pressure of personal experience though.Ask me over a beer sometime.
Posted by
JohnM, 17:43, 30th June 2000:
If someone was brought up in isolation from the world and was constantly told that there was a huge computer contolling the world, then they would believe that. If they were then told that the computer created everything around them they would believe that too. If they then spoke to others, who hadn't been rasied in such a way, then they would disagree when them when they said that there wasn't a giant computer controlling the world. How does this differ from believing in a god?Because God is REAL. There are lots of instances where unexplainable things have happened. To me as well.I'm really not good at arguements, and typing long things... talk to someone who can better reply.But I do know one thing. There IS a God who loves everyone on earth. And He wants to have everyone in heaven with Him. Regardless of what you've done.
Posted by
atom, 18:36, 30th June 2000:
Spaz -- You can't demean someone because of a choice they made, a choice they have the
RIGHT to make. Not the privelege, but the
RIGHT. You saying that Cal is a bad person because of his lack of religion is possible the most immature thing I have ever seen from you, and that is saying alot.As for my input. I do believe in God. The major reason being that I don't think that an atom just appeared for scientific reasons. There is a Superior Being of some sort.
Posted by
JohnM, 20:27, 30th June 2000:
Originally posted by atom911I do believe in God.Cool :)
Posted by
spaz, 20:29, 30th June 2000:
[snip]
Posted by
atom, 22:01, 30th June 2000:
Spaz -- I didn't see Cal attack religion in any way. He stated his points, and backed it up with supporting statements. As for telling me I shouldn't be defending cal -- Just because I believe in, and know that there is a God doesn't mean everyone has to. It is not my place to
tell other people that He exists. Doing so would be like telling someone the
have to like cheese. That is re-god-damn-dicullous. Your gonna come across people with different beliefs in life, and most of the time, you aren't gonna change there mind. You must live with it...
Posted by
pault, 00:33, 1st July 2000:
An extremely sensible viewpoint, if I may add.By and large, us Humanists don't think any less of Christians, so why should Christians think any less of us? Where is their right to?Intolerance is how wars and injustice happens. Are these Christian traits? Not in any version of the faith as I understand it.Faith is a marvellous thing, which I admire greatly. Personally I can't subscribe to it, but I think no less of people who do. Nor should they judge me for my own views. If you think I'm going to burn in hell, well cheers! I care not, I happen to live life by my own set of moral values which society en masse seems to agree with, so I think I'm doing right by my fellow beings. Ergo, I'm a good person. If someone tries tell me I'm NOT a good person just because I'm not a Christian, my reaction, frankly is "fuck you, you don't even know me!". And there my case rests.